Nat: Roses Discount Stores
Track: Theresa Kinlaw has shopped at Roses Discount Stores for more than 50 years. Now, she browses the aisles on Wednesdays when senior citizens receive an additional 10 percent off their purchase.
Kinlaw: They have good deals, you know, you see stuff that you might see at another store, but it’s just a little bit cheaper.
Track: Roses resemble an extra-large dollar store. With sale signs galore, the warehouse-like facility includes everyday essentials like socks and snacks, but also eclectic seasonal decor and synthetic motor oil. Kinlaw says Roses has a little bit of everything, but she usually shops for cleaning supplies and bathroom essentials. Kinlaw also loves the inexpensive t-shirts, which she says are a gym staple among her friends.
Kinlaw: It’s kinda the community spot. Mhmm… and most of my friends are seniors like I am. And every little discount helps. Every little bit helps. (Laughter)
Intro: Welcome to the Carolina Connection podcast. I’m Madeleine Ahmadi. Artist Andy Warhol says being good in business is the most fascinating kind of art. So, meet the man in charge of Roses – and a regional empire of more than 400 bargain stores – Art Pope. He’s often credited with turning – and keeping – the North Carolina legislature Republican. Pope is a businessman, multi-millionaire, and powerful political operative.
Pope: My father was not there when I was born, because he was opening up a new store in Elizabethtown, North Carolina. I remember Elizabethstown’s store being opened on my birthday, literally the day of my birth.
Track: Now, Pope, who is the CEO of Variety Wholesalers, is growing the company’s collection of discount spots. After Big Lots filed for bankruptcy in September, Variety Wholesalers bought roughly 15 percent of their stores – 200 Big Lots locations. Pope will fold them into the company that he’s been a part of since he was a kid in the 1960s.
Pope: I went to travel to stores when I was a young child with my dad. I worked summers as a teenager in college with the company. So really, I’ve been involved with the family business, as a family member, my entire life.
Track: But the influence that Art Pope has had on his home state goes well beyond the clothing, housewares and hardware that line the aisles of his stores. He’s also perhaps the state’s most influential political donor. Pope is credited with turning North Carolina red in the 2010 elections – the first time in modern history that Republicans controlled the legislature. They maintain that control to this day. He pours money into Republican causes and campaigns and influences public policy and public education through his many think tanks and organizations like the John Locke Foundation, the Civitas Institute and the James G. Martin Center.
Pope: I basically thought, well I think I can make a difference if I can win an election. So I ran for the legislature in 1988 and won. I was one of the first Republicans elected in Wake County to the North Carolina General Assembly.
Track: Just three years later, Pope vacated his seat to run for Lieutenant Governor, winning the Republican primary. Pope argued for what he called common-sense budget reform to avoid mid-session deficits and tax increases. He also advocated for school choice and a referendum to give the governor more power. He and Democrat Dennis Wicker engaged in contentious debate, and at times, name calling.
Nat: Campaign advertisement
Track: Wicker ran that attack ad against Pope, but it also mirrors an argument they had in the hallway outside a TV studio where they had just taped a 1992 debate.
Nat: Hallway argument
Track: Pope lost the Lt. Governor’s race, and though he was elected to one more term in the legislature, he had begun to realize that he could influence public policy without being in elected office. Today, he supports conservative causes as one of North Carolina’s top political donors.
Pope: Yes, as a Republican, I want a Republican majority. I don’t always agree what the Republican majority does all the time, but I think they offer better policy that benefit the people more so than the Democrat party.
Track: A quick search of Pope’s donation records produces hundreds of different contributions from 1994 to June 2024. Over the 30 year period, Pope has donated millions to republican candidates and causes.
Pope: I’m free to donate to my candidates I support. So that’s part of democracy, it’s not buying the state.
Track: Just within the University of North Carolina system, Pope serves on the Board of Governors, and several of his associates are university leaders, including UNC-Chapel Hill Chancellor Lee Roberts, who served on the board of variety wholesalers. In fact, that’s the very reason the UNC student group TransparUNCy began. Leader Toby Posel says Pope actively harms the social welfare of the state.
Posel: Many hundreds of thousands of people have not been able to put food on the table or get medical coverage for life-saving necessities because of political and legislative decisions made by Art Pope and his, the political movement that he bankrolls. Like that’s not an abstraction, that is a material reality for poor and working class people in the state of North Carolina.
Track: Posel says the GOPs actions over the past 15 years have been detrimental. He says Pope is funding that destruction.
Posel: Stripping food stamps, stripping unemployment benefits, you know, yeah, further reducing worker protections going after trans and queer people forcibly outing queer kids to their parents, you know, massively divesting from public schools.
Track: Pope is no stranger to comments like these.
Pope: They wanted to create a boogeyman, a demon, and I was there to do that because I had been very active in both the Republican party and policy and business.
Track: I wanted to know if negative comments bothered Pope, so I asked.
Pope: Of course it bothers you to an extent. It bothers my family more. But in a way, It’s a huge backhanded compliment. If you weren’t doing something right in that effect they wouldn’t bother attacking you.
Track: During Pope’s time in the legislature, he served alongside Paul Stam. Now, Stam is the vice chair and secretary of the John Locke Foundation, which Pope helped to create.
Stam: He became also very effective, even out of office, because he had a lot of money.
Track: Stam’s one-level, small law office is decorated with political artwork and books. And when I first sat down, he directed me to a box of business cards. The back of the card reads “An interesting Bible Study on the Importance of Human Life” and includes a scannable QR code. When scanned, Stam appears on screen, in the same office, sharing from the Bible.
Nat: Bible study
Paul Stam: It’s nothing political, nothing legislative. I’ve done a lot of that in my career, but it’s strictly from the Bible. Mostly, well, strictly from the Bible, why it’s important for society not to condone the mass killing of human children.
Track: Pope and Stam were friends, legislative colleagues and both brought a rightward shift to the legislature. Beyond Stam’s personal convictions, we discussed his relationship with Pope, a man he describes as “brilliant,” “studious” and “prepared.”
Stam: If you’re a big government person, high tax person, a lot of regulations person, you don’t want somebody whose effective, who knows what he’s doing, who can thwart your plans.
Track: And, without Pope, Stam says the state budget would be higher, state taxes would be higher and there would be more regulations than there are today. Even now, Pope isn’t done reshaping North Carolina. He says his recent Big Lots acquisition will save 5,000 jobs. The purchase also means that Big Lots locations will begin to reopen in April, adding to Pope’s collection of retail stores and influence.
Pope: My legacy is this, this is very trite, but it’s, it’s simple. It’s to leave the world a better place than I found it. I think my business helps alleviate poverty, lift people out of poverty by providing them jobs and provide them goods at a lower cost and a greater value than they otherwise would have. I would like to see that business continue beyond me.
Track: In 2014, Pope was named to Brookings’ list of the most politically influential billionaires. But, Pope wrote to the institution saying he was indeed not a billionaire. His name was then removed from the list.
While Pope may have built his empire on discounts, it’s certainly difficult to discount his influence.
You’ve been listening to the Carolina Connection podcast, a production of the UNC Hussman School of Journalism and Media.
I’m Madeleine Ahmadi
